Coping with loss

[mjeschke]

This question goes out to Jacko or Lief. I finished your book on Extreme Ownership and want to thank you for sharing. I know it's not an easy task to share and I really appreciate it. I'm not sure how to reach out to either of you though so hopefully this finds its way.

Context for my question: I have a lifelong appreciation for discipline and excellence so your book was especially interesting to me. This appreciation started as a athlete in High School grew stronger when I entered business in my 30's.

About 4 years ago I started reading your book, "Extreme Ownership". I also met the love of my life. She bid for time in my life and won. I started spending Sunday evenings with her as we imagined a long and happy future together. The only thing between her and I was my extreme desire to work and achieve but she was slowly winning me over. I knew it was only a matter of time before we would be married. I started planning out what steps I would need to take to raise a family, house, monthly income, etc. etc. etc.

Then one day, I couldn't reach her. I was finally contacted by a mutual friend whom informed me she died in her sleep. I went into shock. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't even put my cloths on or tie my shoes. I was in bad shape, I lost 10% of my body weight in a few days. Literally had to be nursed back with help of her parents and mine. It was the hardest thing I've experienced in my life and I don't feel I'm a stranger to hardship.

It took me about 6 months to start functioning again. I did my taxes at that point and realized I earned more money than I ever had in my life before in those months I was with her. I was shocked. I started questioning everything. Especially how I'd prioritized financial security ahead of cultivating our relationship. She'd asked me several times to get married and the first thing that came to mind, is I cannot afford that financially. So I told her I put her off. At this point, I didn't know what was right or wrong. I even questioned discipline and your book. I finally picked the book up again and finished reading it at the end of July.

The truth is discipline and personal responsibility have gotten me where I am and I appreciate you sharing your experiences with me.

My question: How do soldiers deal with this extreme loss? How do you get back on your feet? Surely it's hard for you as well, if not harder, as soldiers loose multiple people close to them in war? Even at 3 years I'm still struggling to rekindle that drive to push myself and achieve my goals. The feeling of loss is absolutely crushing. I can maintain my composure but struggle with it in my mind.

[mynewunit]

Listen to Podcast 150  160. It begins with Jocko's letter to Seth Stone. I think it will give you some perspective of how Jocko thinks of his team mates who have passed.

First, I am so sorry. There us nothing worse than looking a loved one, especially a partner.

How do you keep living when one of your own dies? Step 1. Keep living. Back to the daily work. Back to friends, job, family. Yes, it will all hurt. You will learn to keep moving and after a while it will hurt less of the time.
Step 2. Be changed. Those who go before us continue to have meaning as long as we are changed by their time with us. We continue to be better people, do great things, do good things, and make the world a better place in honor of them. We don't need to die, or never love again. When you are ready, you will be able. She was a part of your life. You are different for knowing her.

Go live the life you are meant to. The worst thing you could do is wither away.
I would recommend the Jordan Peterson self authoring program to help you understand what you want out of life, making a plan and how to proceed with that plan.

Let me know if you need someone to talk to.
Brian

[mjeschke]

Aug 9, 2019 12:30:22 GMT -8 mynewunit said:

Listen to Podcast 150. It begins with Jocko's letter to Seth Stone....
Brian

Thanks, I appreciate that. I listened to 150, is it another one? It didnt seem to be about loss. Was interesting interview of vietnam veteran.

Wait google says podcast 160, let me listen to that one. Thanks again.

[mynewunit]

My bad. 160 the Live in NYC podcast. I am looking for a start point in 153 for Dennis Rowley talking about loosing friends.

[mynewunit]

Aug 21, 2019 4:47:09 GMT -8 mynewunit said:

My bad. 160 the Live in NYC podcast. I am looking for a start point in 153 for Dennis Rowley talking about loosing friends.


Here is Mike Sarraille talking about loosing Mikey Monsoor.

[mjeschke]

Thanks, Brian.

I finished listening to 160. I was shocked to find parallels in my experience, things I never really discussed with anybody. Thanks for sharing. I'll listen to the additional podcasts.

[mjeschke]

I keep thinking on this post. A lot of almost spiritual things came to light after I lost my girlfriend. It wasn't my first hardship, certainly won't be my last but the spiritual experience and aftermath was exceptionally profound. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the story of Samson from the bible? I was a VERY ornery kid and my parents are quite religious but it's not to say it was all lost. I always remember that guy Samson. I never cut my hair and always thought of how strong that guy was in the story. I trained very hard as a kid, and had some intense dreams of loosing my strength and agility. Strong enough that they are burned into my mind.

Back in 2006 I was granted an opportunity to pursue my wildest dream. I always wanted to serve and specifically as a Naval Aviator. I wear glasses so being the pilot was out of the picture but was given a chance to become an NFO. At the time I was 25 years old. I was a hard charging young guy. I was a full time engineer in night school / grad school full time, and a competitive body builder. I exercised literally 3 to 4 hours a day and feel asleep studying every night. When I learned of the opportunity, I pushed myself even harder. I knew it wouldn't be easy and I would have to be twice as good as the next guy (I have a heart murmur - for which I got a waiver). Due to medical I felt I had to show them I was doubly capable. I became exceptionally fit and capable. Long story short they asked I change my career field when I got to OCS. They'd over recruited and flight school was backed up for 9 months. They discharged me on medical for the heart murmur (despite other classmates had same condition and got to go). My DI offered to help in his own way but I was not sure what was best to do. I left OCS in Pensacola and started calling other branches of the military. It never went anywhere.

I continued work as an engineer. Living a posh life so to speak - then left and started over again in business. I had several failed business attempts and landed where I am now. Much with the same drive hard work ethic. All the time I kept up with my physical regiment though with not quite the same fervor as before. Then in 2016 I met my girlfriend. She asked that I spent time with her. I worked every single minute I had and when I wasn't working I was exercising. However, I made the choice to spend one day per week with her and was working to hire people and automate my business so I could have more time with her.

Six months or so after she was gone I realized I'd obtained similar fitness levels to what I had preparing for OCS. I had also made the best money of my life when I was with her. Though I was shocked as it felt effortless this time compared to when I was younger. I could never understand that. I felt like life was a constant battle up till I met her. After that it became effortless.

Since she's been gone I've done okay, but I feel like Samson... as though they cut my hair and I have no strength left. Before I was hard charging 5 AM to 11 PM then do it again the next day. Now I work 6 to 8 hours a day off Sundays and seldom exercise (trying to get back into it). I feel tired all the time and cannot figure out how to get back to my former routine or some semblance of it. Cliche as it sounds Coffee seems to help but I never depended on it before.

And I always have Samson stuck in my head. There are several bible stories from my childhood that keep coming to my mind. For the first time in my life I actually started revisiting those and taking an interest in the bible. However, I cannot for the life of me find my drive and strength anymore. I struggle with that.

[mynewunit]

I like the answer of looking in the Bible. I don't know if Samson is the best role model, but the Bible is full of imperfect examples.

Being an engineer, I recommend the book of Nehemiah. It isn't a great allegory to your situation, but I don't think Ruth or Job is where you should start.

The advise I typically give is to stop looking for a romantic relationship. When you are just focusing on you and the impact you have on others, good candidates tend to make themselves visible.
Obviously, this is the most frustrating answer, but kinda the best path.
Are you doing the church thing? Small group, life group, thing? Who are you talking with regularly? I think those answers will be helpful in forming your future.

[mjeschke]

Sorry for slow reply. I didn't see the response. I only really told half the story. The other have came to a climax last night.

On friends... I have one day to myself. I go hiking in the back country with some retired guys. One was a Vietnam vet, marines and saw lots of action. The other a Korean army vet but didn't see any action. They are very good people and I think the hiking is about as exciting as going to the moon for me. This sort of thing is in my blood. I had pushed to be a navy pilot or navigator. I worked for most of my life to do that but it never came to fruition. However, I always admired the infantry guys. I had a great uncle my grandpa always spoke of who was an infantry man in Pacific during WWII. A story of his was shared only because the fellow solider he saved was a fellow friend who grew up in same area and that guy shared the story. And a brother of my grandma was infantry in Korea but was never spoke of. They both continued on in their lives all be it the Korean veteran was committed to a VA home for rest of his life. The disabled veteran, army paid disability which he could not spend so he shared it. The family stopped him from sharing it and never spoke of him. I felt very bad about that. They wanted money to accrue so they could have it after he died. I had lived literally 15 minutes from him for 5 years but didn't know he existed so I never visited. Turns out his entire unit was whipped out twice, him being sole survivor each time. His wife left him and he was put in the VA home where he lived until he died at about  70 years old.

Anyways, I devoted myself to my late girlfriend's family and specifically her baby boy. He's now 5 years old. She had got pregnant a couple years before I met her. It was an abusive situation, she didn't want to marry but her folks told her it would be best. The guy was not kind or good to her and it only culminated in the husband's mom trying to kill her, then her father. Literally, she left and got as far away as she could. Then I met her. You all know the story, a few months later she died. I don't know how, her parents never launched an investigation and I was in too much shock to put anything together till later on.

I posted some stuff here but had to delete it. I am part of a legal battle I really cannot put it on a public form. I can share it via PM if you're interested in my problem (for which I'm extremely thankful for any support). But I cannot put it here as it presents an incredible tactical advantage to the adversary if they find the information I have. I am trying to save the life of my late girlfriend's baby boy and cannot seem to make progress on my own, as well as have very little support from the people who have the legal president to make a difference.

[mjeschke]

I read the extreme leadership book twice in a row. I'm looking for solutions. I have a team but I cannot seem to motivate them to take action and unfortunately in this situation I cannot switch out the team. There's no second place here, it's a matter of life and death or at best second place has severe lifelong consequences. I don't know how to get everybody up and running so we can help the boy. I'm also in an inferior position to negotiate anything. This is my underlying challenge. I ask my marine friend and he says sometimes you just need to get away from it all. My parents have been helpful and they reinforced that I should get away from the problem gain perspective and let them take the heat for a while. That I'm accepting too much responsibility for them.

The grandparents tell me they want the boy to be with them and away from that abusive family but I don't see them taking any action. I wounder if I fuddled this all up because I accepted too much responsibility. I felt like my DI when I barked at them about the dentist. However, it worked and in the moment they did what was needed (only they never followed up afterwards ). I also know I cannot bark orders at them constantly because I'll break them emotionally. And lately it's all been barking and yelling at them to the point I cannot look either of them in the eyes because I feel ashamed for yelling at them.

I have another coach for work. He was a former Navy rescue swimmer. He constantly tells me to be careful not get to close to my clients and colleagues at work because "Comfort breads contempt". Although this is more like family so I'm not sure if maybe I'm messing that up? Also in OCS they spoke of this, not getting too personable with the enlisted people under you. Another dynamic I worry about is I'm 38 and her parents are in their 60's. At what point does the torch get passed off and the next generation have to call the shots? Am I over stepping generational boundaries by telling adults what is necessary and appropriate?

Sorry guys, I'm literally fried. I needed to get this stuff out somewhere. I've been fighting this battle for 3 1/2 years now. I finally slept last night after parting ways. I woke up feeling physically like I was in a massive fight but it's all be psychological stress. In my mind, there's no question with kids. You don't abandon them yet I feel like I left that kid behind. I just have such shitty position to fight from.

[mynewunit]

I am a foster parent. The system will always favor the biological. There are many fewer requirements on blood family than Foster/adoptive/non-blood care takers. Honestly, I would agree that you should probably take a step back in the 5 year old's life. Micro, you have the least legal claim to the child. Macro, people have been having kids for centuries, dentist are only a few decades old. The child could have a better life, but it might be better for him to have his life.

I would get back to work. Real estate in Arizona is going to be some work. Keep it up.

I was working with someone. Guy who had a rough life. He has a son who has been in protective medical care. Every time the son is in an institution, he has a schedule, human interaction, and seems like he shouldn't be there. His family would only need to set a schedule, wake up at a reasonable time, have consistent meal times, and show some interest in him and how he is feeling and he could most likely live with them. The guy, his dad, said "I can't do that".

Once you reach an understanding like that, you have to choose how much longer you will smash your head into a wall. That was around the time I went looking for a new wall.