Leadership in Education

[eriksd]

Quick question for the moderator, has Jocko ever considered partnering with educational professionals to develop an adaptation for Extreme Ownership for Teachers and Administrators? I am a high school teacher and have used many of the principals in my practice in the classroom. In fact, I recently was approved by the board to teach Extreme Ownership in my class as part of the curriculum and am beginning the unit this month. I think there is value in developing an 'Extreme Education' curriculum PD for schools.

Thanks
Erik

[mynewunit]

Many points you may know.
1. Both of Jocko's parents were (are?) Teachers.
2. There was some talk about Jocko starting a school back around podcast 20. I will dig for some actual references. He was looking to call it something like The Institute.
3. Jocko has posted many pictures and videos of teachers teaching extreme ownership and warrior principles. Obviously this has increased with the Warrior kid books. Search his Twitter page. Or if I get really motivated I will follow this post with some helpful links.

Keep up the good work, Erik.
Pos.

[gkieser92]

I have wondered the same thing. I work in education, specifically special education focused on behaviorally challenged students. I would not compare it to combat, but our students are physically aggressive multiple times a day, and we have 7 students who have combined for over 200 physical restraints this year. My team of 5 feels a lot like how Jocko has described a fire team.

I am building this program from scratch this year. I am working on applying Extreme Ownership concepts to our program. I have noticed a couple of challenges:

1. Most educators will balk at military terminology or inspiration. Hell, in my area there is a strong movement to ban military recruiters from high schools.
2. High turnover. My aides have had 80% turnover so the team is constantly reconstituting.
3. Education has a weird chain of command that is unlike anywhere else. I have supervisory responsibility with no supervisory authority.
4. There is high risk of liability in this field, so taking ownership too far means I could get scapegoated.

My big project this year is creating a field manual for the team, and I am embedding EO and the laws of combat behind the scenes. I think the trick is to be subtle.

[mynewunit]

I like the field manual for you fire teams. Give them a name that they would be proud of. "Special forces" "resource teams". Some things that help morale with high stress work environments is "visibility". Try to get the upper levels in the room with you. Maybe a weekly or monthly meeting with the principal, super intensely, or the administrator who would care about your activities, problems, etc. Hearing where their area of focus is can be very helpful. They can also answer questions and establish limits.
Next is to identify the problems, difficult tasks, difficult people, problematic situations. Maybe bathroom monitor is the worst task, and it always gets put on the new guy. If that task was shared by the whole team, it reduces the stress on that team member. They are more willing to do it because the "boss" also does it. Maybe even have the principal take a shot at the difficult task. If it is a task worthy of every level, it isn't dumping on the new guy.
Next, look at the cause of the problems. When can the problem be identified? How does it escalate? What solutions have been tried? What hasn't been tried? What isn't allowed?
If the team is part of the solution, they are more likely to help it succeed.

Just a few thoughts.

[paramedicpeterson]

I have a similar question. How would one go about measuring Extreme Ownership? Bonus - how to measure this quality before and after training.

I have had the unique opportunity and privilege of creating an EMS Academy for on-boarding new EMTs and Paramedics into my agency. I selected my instructor staff, required them all to quickly read EO, and they all heartily agreed to have EO as one of the primary outcomes of the Academy. We are all stumped, however, in how to measure this quality for trainees arriving and then measuring growth in this area as they leave the academy experience. Connected in with the comments above, a curriculum for developing EO is welcomed.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[mynewunit]

This is like asking to measure humility. To test this would take situational testing where following the rules is the wrong answer. They would have to be in a situation where they would have to effectively use the laws of combat. Can the delegate, allow that person to make their own decisions, support them while they work, then have them support you while you work.

I think you would have to create a testing situation where they will fail. Then you would have to have them diagnose their failure. I don't know if this is the best situation for evaluation. It might be a helpful training. Most first responders don't train for failure. There is a possibility of an event where your resources will be overwhelmed, and you will have losses. How do you prioritize? Save one or just run patient to patient.

Another item is that EO is a leadership skill set. Are you developing leaders or just EMT's? Teamwork and Skills are fine. Maybe build those separately.

[albert12]

I have wondered the same thing. I work in education, specifically special education focused on behaviorally challenged students. I would not compare it to combat, but our students are physically aggressive multiple times a day, and we have 7 students who have combined for over 200 physical restraints this year. My team of 5 feels a lot like how Jocko has described a fire team.

I am building this program from scratch this year. I am working on applying Extreme Ownership concepts to our program. I have noticed a couple of challenges:

1. Most educators will balk at military terminology or inspiration. Hell, in my area there is a strong movement to ban military recruiters from high schools.
2. High turnover. My aides have had 80% turnover so the team is constantly reconstituting.
3. Education has a weird chain of command that is unlike anywhere else. I have supervisory responsibility with no supervisory authority.
4. There is high risk of liability in this field, so taking ownership too far means I could get scapegoated.

[mynewunit]

I agree with all of your observations.

1. Start with the Chain of Command. Have managers, leaders, etc observe your team working. If nothing else, they will be emotionally detached from the group. They might see something you guys are missing because they aren't trying to finish the day's tasks. If they give feedback, take it. Try their ideas. I assume they may have one or two. The real purpose is to let them know all the challenges of your group.
2. Build the team outside of the work day. Practice daily tasks. Create "positions" and "plays". When Bobby becomes a distraction, he will be double teamed by the floater. Or The person at the reading station always has the ability to call the audible. Change roles as it makes sense. Maybe the D-line/Goalie/Whatever person gets the 7 trouble makers gets to rotate to forward/quarterback, weekly. Who ever is the most senior/capable, should take the most difficult position, most often to demonstrate that it isn't a punishment.
3. Do change well. Understand that change is not a problem, just a part of the game. People will leave, help them leave well. New team members will come, help them join the team. Help the kids learn their names. Answer the questions about why people left and why new people are here. Then use change as an advantage. Use prompts to let the children know when changes are coming. In 10 minutes we go to the art room. Lunch is in an hour. Being honest with them is a way to demonstrate trust.
4. Your position is another example of upside down use of power. Special educators should probably be the most educated and most trained. But because putting the best teachers in the smallest classes doesn't make the teacher, school, or students look good, it isn't done. Companies have the same issue where they never put their best employees in their problem areas.

The best thing you can do, is look at your work with new eyes. Hopefully 2 months of not normal school due to the quarentine/Covid 19 outbreak will allow you guys to see the way you did it as strange. Then you can open the discussion about making improvements. Make sure you record how things did go. Look for improvements. Then compare them to the old way. Make sure you are actually getting better. This brings all new challenges that relate to continuous improvement, measurable variables, organization, internal and external communication.
If you and your team would be interested in having a virtual conversation, let me know.