Employee warning signs

[joeldirt14]

You can tell when an employee/ employer relationship is deteriorating with red flags like: showing up late; reduced quality standards; indifference; etc. Maybe it starts off subtle and escalates to a no call, no show. Now it's serious--likely ending in termination...

These red flags are signs of the relationship deteriorating. It's easier to self sabotage, or to blame one or the other for things going south, as opposed to confronting the root issues head on and taking ownership of what ever the problem is.

Good employees should always be retained, and it's the leaders job to keep them motivated and engaged. It's also the employees job to stand up for themselves where need be, and take ownership of their role to produce their best.

While underlying factors may be in play that make the confrontation difficult, what advice do you have for both sides of the fence?

I feel like more often, employers abuse their position and use their people beyond the value they are compensating them for. I also feel like good employees let resentment build rather than rock the boat. So, who's responsibility is it to take first initiative in this symbiotic relationship? Who takes the ownership of the problem once it begins? Or, has the leader failed if these problems arise to begin with, or is it the subordinates failure ultimately?

[mynewunit]

You are correct that this a a difficult situation to fix. Good team members typically turn inward rather than lash out. Leaders also think that no complaints means all is well. So who is supposed to tip the scale, crack the eggs, to find these issues, or handle them once they boil to the surface. Who's job is it to bring these all to light? It is your job.

As Jocko says, there are no bad teams, only bad leaders. He cites many traits of great leaders checking on the front line troops. Podcast 105 had a lot of talk of leaders getting close enough to see where their soldiers are and the problems and challenges they are facing. Also listen to the Podcast 93 with Pete Roberts, and listen to the difference between employee narrative and reality. If you don't tell the employees what is going on, they will make up their own story.

Now my boss specifically told me to play good cop. He would ask about what he was seeing and I would tell him my perspective and what I know, or actually ask my co workers. I would also ask him about various request that came down from corporate. He would tell me where it ranked in my daily tasks and the corporate thought process or the "why" behind it.

When the atmosphere changed in my office, I took it on myself to change it. Company got shuffled. New boss in a different state. Let 2 employee go in 3 months. People got quiet. I saw this. I chatted with the "troopers" and tried to get a handle of what was going on. I created a young professionals group were we talk about how to do life better. It gives team members a chance to be heard, succeed in different areas of life, be a part of a community, and voice concerns with other people who want to improve themselves. My intent is to give people knowledge that they are in control of their lives. Once they know they have control over their life, work place stress is less.

[daniel]

One thing that is important, I think, is to try to understand the situation. Why are people coming late ? Why are they becoming indifferent ?

Is it something in their personal life ? Is it because the culture changed ? Are they bored ? Do they know it's important to be on time ? Maybe they think a meeting is useless and their presence is unnecessary.

When did it start ? Was it after some employees got hired ? Was it after someone got promoted ?

Now, the employee has to do the same thing. I remember a scene in Band of Brothers, some soldiers were saying bad things about their commander. The guy was really not great, but complaining all the time about him didn't help the situation. Lipton, the NCO, even if he didn't like him, he defended his superior www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR0HTI0MqGk

Negativity doesn't lead anywhere, finding solutions, having a helpful mindset and taking some risks does. Don't focus on stuff you cannot control, but focus on what you can do to help the situation. If everybody does that, then the situation for sure will get better.

[joeldirt14]

Yeah, it is something I see really often as an observer. While this post isn't about me, I have been here before. I've been that disengaged employee who ended up quitting. But that was After I made solid attempts at communicating issues, obstacles, and improvements, that fell on deaf ears. Before the relationship turned advisarial, I resigned and moved on. I refuse to waste my time, and am passionate about my career. I'm a good follower, but I won't follow bad leaders. Maybe the Marine Corps spoiled me...

After the USMC, I've been self employed 8 of the 11 years since I've been out. We recently moved to a new State to start over where there is more opportunity, and so I have a day job for now until I reestablish my shop and set up tooling. I see myself as an observer and am learning a ton while I know my time is only temporary (they are aware of this too). I see a lot, and it's a unique perspective.

I think it's really hard for employees to speak out in fear of reprisal, and leaders often just let it be a character flaw, taking no call to action. So with neither ever addressing any problems, it only escalates into a downward spiral. Sad.

A guy just recently quit from what I could tell, seemed to be rather abrupt. I'm new to the team/ company, and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. But asking questions as to how it led up to that, apparently there were plenty of signs, but everyone remained passive. That's a tragedy to me.

I feel it's the leaders job to recognize the signs if they begin to trend, and ask questions to get to the bottom of it. Sometimes it's an easy fix; at least it shows you care and want to set your people up for success.

I also feel it's the individuals duty to voice problems before they just start becoming passive or indifferent. It's a two way street. If no fruit is harvested from the attempt, try again with a new approach. After a bit of time, maybe more of a mutual trust and respect is gained. Maybe your voice will be heard this time. If it's an ego thing, and "it-is-what-it-is", than maybe look elsewhere and secure a new gig. Just don't retaliate and self sabotage through your frustrations. Never let yourself go. Hold the line for yourself and the team always. Give proper notice, and just explain you have a great new opportunity you'd like to capitalize on. Keep it professional.

Just thought since this is so common, and relevant that I might discuss it here. I'm new to this forum, but follow the podcast and have read and listened to the books. Extreme ownership is incredible and refreshing.

[mynewunit]

As you see from daniel and joel's answers, it is common and it doesn't go well by accident. Let us know how things go.

[6531Jeep]

I'm that employee... I'm late almost everyday. I don't want to be, I have family obligation that hinder me from being on time. I know I have no excuses for being late. I have a performance based job that tardiness is not an issue. I'm not late out of spite, I'm just that shitbag that's late to everything. Especially after having my second kid. Both my kids are under three, so my hands get tied pretty quickly.
Like another poster here I'm very observant and a former Marine. I've noticed my manager is too friendly with his employees, specifically the top producers. When my manager would confront me about my tardiness, I would bring up his beloved top producers who are always late. His response "When you can produce like them I won't care about your tardiness". Which I think is a BS statement.
I've brought up my Greviences and they always fell on deaf ears. And he would always pretend he was listening and cared but no action or follow-up would occur.
I think before this observation was comprehended, I did have a sense of entitlement and a chip on my shoulder. Then I realized that, that shit doesn't help me and I must focus on work and it alone. But no matter how hard I work it's never enough I never get the hours I need to make my paycheck what I need. It brings a lot of self doubt. I can't say I'm working at 110%, I can't function at that speed forever. I find when I ratchet my speed, I don't produce more I produce the same even when I move faster and get jobs completed faster. Then my following paycheck is super flat because I burnt myself out the previous pay period. I also noticed that my work is not satisfactory and I have to redo something. So, I take the saying "Slow is fast and fast is smooth.".
Honestly, I feel I work my ass off for the company, I want what's best for the company. I want to be the top producer, not for recognition or perks with the boss. I simply have a family to feed, clothe, and a hundred other things that every family needs.
So, last night I had enough. I touched up my Resumé, I posted to the internet in search of better employment. Well, low and behold, I pulled a boneheaded move, the post went to my manager. IDIOT!!!!!

[mynewunit]

Okay. Slow down, soldier. Take a breath, look around.
Sounds like you are having some success on the home front. 2 kids, and a hopefully a great Girl. Keep that up.

Work is another dimension. For the getting to work on time, if it was your top priority, you could make it happen. Obviously, this might mean getting into bed at 8 PM and up at 5 AM to get ahead of the 2 little ones. This does require you to never watch sports or have adult friends.

At work get a mentour. Find an NCO. Someone who has been around the company for a few years. Someone who knows the people, but isn't your boss. They will give you a handful of tips on what is important and what isn't. This person will eventually tell you what you do well and where you need to improve.

Again, working too hard isn't particularly rewarded by any company. It is more about what you do for them, or how much they can charge for what you do.

[6531Jeep]

My New Unit,
Thank you for the encouragement.
I'm picking up what your putting down!
First, let me say that I'm not that guy who quits at the first sign of trouble. I'm pretty stubborn , almost stupid, in the amount of blood, sweat and tears I'll give to accomplish the task at hand. That being said, I've done this job/career for 11yrs, so I have a lot of experience in this trade. But I'm always willing to learn a new way of doing something.

The only thing is I've done almost all of your suggestions already.

Please don't take this personally. I don't feel you can give proper advice on a general round about synopsis of the situation. Even though your advice was spot on with the synopsis that was written. And I do appreciate you taking the time to read it and now this book. LoL.

Background:

I’m a mechanic. I work on a flat rate system. This means what ever I bid the job, that is how much I get paid regardless of the amount of time it takes me to do the job. Example: I bid a job an hour, it takes me a half hour to do I still get an hour. If it takes me 1.5 hours I get paid 1 hour.

My manager is very young for his position. I had my doubts at first, when he took over. But has grown into the position nicely except he shows his age a lot. Which is understandable. After the change he basically took 40% of everyone's paycheck and gave it to someone else. That was about a year and half ago. Things have started to settle back down to normal. Everyone's paychecks have gone back to a new normal. Mine on the other hand has not really recovered, at least not to the degree it was.
Now being an 11 yr veteran to the industry and at this company for three. I feel my hours should be at a certain level and there just not quite there. I'm the lowest producing tech in the shop. This drives me mad, because I know I can produce more. I see very green techs with less certs. than me, make more. I see top producers come in late-late , leave early, BS a bit. And everyone I talk to says your always busy why are your hours so low. THAT’s THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.

I was so distraught about my paycheck, it seemed like I was in my managers office every pay period. Chewing his ear off about my paycheck and demanding a fix. (Remember I had a chip on my shoulder and a sense of entitlement) He actually suggested to be mentored by the top producer to find my way. I was thrilled at the opportunity. But actually, it was not as helpful as I was hoping. I figured there was this crazy new way I've never seen to get the job done more quickly. (If you saw this guy you'd think this guy could not be the top producer, he moves so slow.) This is the time I realized that I can't keep doing what I've been doing and expecting a different result.

I mentioned I was mentored for almost two weeks by the top producer. Which I also feel was a little BSish. He really didn't give me a lot of pointers he just said do this and that without an explanation of why. Don't get it twisted I did learn from him just not what I thought I was going to. He says I have a confidence issue. He says I'm too late to pull the trigger on a part and I spend too much time diagnosing the car verses fixing it. I agreed I started pulling triggers on cars without diagnosing them and it almost always backfired. That's the reason why I spend the time to do the job right so I don't have this issue. Don't get me wrong I cut my corners where I 100% know I can and don't when I question the jeopardy of the repair.
Writing this down I think I see the problem. I give a fuck!!!! I care about the customer’s pocket book, their image of me and my company, my repair to their car. Not too long ago I had a salesperson sell a job that normally pays about 8 hours, he sold it for 18. To some old lady and he was super proud of it. I would of fired him. And if I was his tech I would not accept that job. But almost no one says shit because it goes to…. One of the top producers in the shop. There is a severe integrity issue here, on both sides. I'm almost too honest to a fault and some are almost too dishonest to a fault.
The saying good guys finish last. Couldn’t be more true.

[mynewunit]

First, let me say that I'm not that guy who quits at the first sign of trouble. I'm pretty stubborn , almost stupid, in the amount of blood, sweat and tears I'll give to accomplish the task at hand.

Yeah, You already Said Marine.

Writing this down I think I see the problem. I give a fuck!!!! I care about the customer’s pocket book, their image of me and my company, my repair to their car.

Ah, We did find it.  In Church terms, we call this a heart issue. Your heart is not committed because you are totally on-board with the why of the company.

So you don't want to blindly replace the injectors to fit a bank too lean, when all you need is to swap out the intake gaskets to fix the vacuum leak, which are part or the injector replacement and you would have gotten there anyway.  This acknowledges that you are taking more time for less parts. That would be why you aren't hitting your goals. 

The last thing I want to do is tell you that it is time to start over.  I get the impression that you would benefit from working on a team. You seem to want to know how things are or are not working rather than just do the knee jerk reaction. I think doing the same job at a different fix it shop will be the same problems in a different color uniform. You are going to have to find an employer that appreciates you fixing the least required.  This will probably look like an in house mechanic at a trucking company or a small private shop. If it is just dollars, you can try a side job that is easy, like a job at a parts counter in a national chain.

The other option I see is a little more radical.  Going to work for mechanically inclined industry.  I have been an advocate for getting good guys into the water and waste water facilities. Some hospitals have a good in-house maintenance staff. Obviously getting a job at a factory, bottler, etc. makes sense too. Find the place you want to work rather than a place with a help wanted ad. It is a tricky dance to find a new job while having one and having a family.  Tread lightly. Don't look for a quick change.  Try a 6 month or year timeline. 

A really outside of the box answer would be try the Jordan B. Peterson Self authoring program and personality test. For like $80 you get a real handle on who you are what you are good at.

[jeepmech]

Mynewunit,
HOLY CORNDOG ON A STICK BATMAN!!!
It's like you've been spying on the conversations my wife and I have been having for months now. She has a friend from high school that works in a bus shop, it's a union gig and the pressure is not really there like at a dealership.
I applied and got the chance to test for it. I live in MT and the job is on the east coast,I just didn't have the funds and enough time to plan the trip.
So, I've decided I'm going full bore with your advice. I'm gonna let this bus thing slip by temporarily. I'm gonna get a job at a dealer close by. Buy my time there until I can pounce on that bus gig.
What freaks me out is I know nothing about buses.
Thank you very much.
If I ever find out who you are. Your meal is on me. And I've became an even bigger fan boy of the Jocko TEAM.
ps my guest name was 6531jeep this is in reference to that thread.

[mynewunit]

Mar 2, 2018 21:52:17 GMT -8 jeepmech said:

Mynewunit,
HOLY CORNDOG ON A STICK BATMAN!!!
It's like you've been spying on the conversations my wife and I have been having for months now. She has a friend from high school that works in a bus shop, it's a union gig and the pressure is not really there like at a dealership.
I applied and got the chance to test for it. I live in MT and the job is on the east coast,I just didn't have the funds and enough time to plan the trip.
So, I've decided I'm going full bore with your advice. I'm gonna let this bus thing slip by temporarily. I'm gonna get a job at a dealer close by. Buy my time there until I can pounce on that bus gig.
What freaks me out is I know nothing about buses.
Thank you very much.
If I ever find out who you are. Your meal is on me. And I've became an even bigger fan boy of the Jocko TEAM.
ps my guest name was 6531jeep this is in reference to that thread.

I am on the east coast. You can know my name is Brian McLean. And busses are just shipping containers with a driver seat. Watch a YouTube video a night on repairing or how they work. Start with air brakes. They are the strangest system you would be messing with daily. I will message you my contact info.
PS: You are doing all of this, not me. I am just a handful of years ahead of you and have done the employer change and my little ones are in grade school. I am giving you the advice I got or wish I got when I was in your shoes.
Semper Fi trooper.

[lucifer656]

If I ever find out who you are. Your meal is on me. And I've became an even bigger fan boy of the Jocko TEAM.
ps my guest name was 6531jeep this is in reference to that thread.